March 28, 2015

"I have to say that one of the biggest changes in my lifetime, is the phenomenon of men wearing shorts. Men never wore shorts when I was young."

"There are few things I would rather see less, to tell you the truth. I'd just as soon see someone coming toward me with a hand grenade. This is one of the worst changes, by far. It's disgusting. To have to sit next to grown men on the subway in the summer, and they're wearing shorts? It's repulsive. They look ridiculous, like children, and I can't take them seriously. It's like any other sort of revealing clothing, in that the people you'd most like to see them on aren't wearing them. And if they are, it's probably their job to wear them. My fashion advice, particularly to men wearing shorts: Ask yourself, 'Could I make a living modeling these shorts?' If the answer is no, then change your clothes. Put on a pair of pants.... All these clothes that you see people wearing, the yoga clothes—even men wear them!—it's just another way of being in pajamas. You need more natural beauty to get away with things like that. What's so great thing about clothes is that they're artificial—you can lie, you can choose the way you look, which is not true of natural beauty. So if you're naturally beautiful, wear what you want, but that's .01% of people. Most people just aren't good looking enough to wear what they have on. They should change. They should get some slacks and a nice overcoat."

Said Fran Lebowitz, in an Elle interview that's full of readable stuff, like (about Hillary) "I think her lack of style comes naturally. I do, I really do. She has no style, zero. Of course there's millions of women like this, it's just that not everyone's looking at them constantly." And "Well, what if drag queens just really let themselves go, pretending not to try, like most women?" Like most women... including Hillary.

160 comments:

Tom said...

Well, Fran, come down here to Tampa and walk outside in mid-July in your full New Yawk fashion and see how long you last.

rhhardin said...

I brought Bermudas to the airways and the office in 68.

Ann Althouse said...

On campus here in Madison this past week, with the temperature in the 30s, there were young men walking around in shorts.

It's one thing to give people a break when it's in the 90s or even the 80s, but that is not the nature of the problem we are seeing now. And men are wearing shorts when they are going to be indoors, in climate control. It's just rude to wear shorts when you're going to be sitting next to someone, for example, on a plane.

Big Mike said...

My knees have big, ugly scars on them, but on a hot, humid summer day I wear shorts because they are comfortable. That they are repulsive to the likes of Fran Lebowitz or Ann Althouse doesn't bother me. I wear them for my comfort, not theirs.

Ann Althouse said...

@Big Mike As Fran says, "it's just another way of being in pajamas."

traditionalguy said...

We were trained to wear green shorts and green knee socks our the Boy Scouts formal uniform. I think they still do it

rhhardin said...

The other day a former Kroger clerk told me my legs looked great, on encountering her after a few years.

She said she'd been fired for talking to customers, which was indeed pretty much her thing.

She had a badge with an enormous number of hearts attached, each heart representing a customer that had said she was helpful or friendly or something.

I'd asked if that wasn't the wrong award. Those are friendly people, and anybody can be friendly to friendly people.

You should get an award for being nice to assholes.

It will take some work to come up with the symbol for this.

Anyway they fired her.

campy said...

As Fran says, "it's just another way of being in pajamas."

And that's bad because ...?

Sebastian said...

"It's just rude to wear shorts when you're going to be sitting next to someone, for example, on a plane."

It's not rude to wear a skirt when you're going to be sitting next to someone, for example, on a plane -- if you're (actually) female, of course.

Sal said...

"So if you're naturally beautiful, wear what you want, but that's .01% of [old] people"

fivewheels said...

Fran Lebowitz is far too ugly to go out in public without a bag on her head. It's disgusting. You need more beauty to get away with walking around like that.

Ordinarily I would not post or say something like that, but it's quite obnoxious to chastise people for a) being unattractive, and b) failing to conform to your personal preference, when it is their right not to do so and yours is the minority view. To do both at once is appalling.

fivewheels said...

For the record, I've had strangers compliment my legs when I've been in shorts (does it count if this is during exercise?) but never when in slacks.

Michael K said...

Is Fran related to Tonto Lebowitz ?

YoungHegelian said...

I'd just as soon see someone coming toward me with a hand grenade.

Yeah, Franny, tell us all about the action you saw at Ia Drang in 'Nam, and how that time when the sandbag got shredded by the shrapnel meant for you after that NVA guy lobbed the grenade at your position.

Like FL has ever come close to facing down a hand grenade.

I really, really doubt you want to get in the same boat with FL on much of anything, Professor. When one looks up "obnoxious asshole" in the dictionary, there's a picture of Fran Lebowitz.

Guildofcannonballs said...

The woman doesn't even know what the biggest changes in her lifetime are, yet feels the need to speak nonetheless as if she did.

Weird and creepy, old women like this are. The kind that goes to a tennis match with a Nintendo remote control and pretends she's moving the players and hitting the balls herself.

Bay Area Guy said...

It's actually a positive development that some of our culture warriors on the left are arguing to adopt higher fashion standards.

Now, if she were really courageous and offered some similar advice to some of the young women (nose rings, sloppy hair, sloppy appearance), we would really be turning the corner in the good ole USA.

fivewheels said...

It's also sexist as hell to police men's apparel in ways that would make her freak out if men tried to do it to women (which they sometimes do, and people freak out over it when they do).

Now get your burka on.

Anthony said...

#WarOnMen

Guildofcannonballs said...

Of course, Freud was correct. Shorts are one step closer to the unclouded-by-other-clothing codpiece fashion making a comeback, hence re-introducing penis-envy inspired hysteria in roughly half the population.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=codpiece&form=OPRTSD&pc=OPER

Birkel said...

I assume I can wear kilts, right? Or does the Althousian cultural imperialism know no bounds?

dreams said...

I was into my early sixties before I finally decided to wear shorts like everyone else while playing golf, because I didn't wear shorts, I felt like I was the uncool guy. I can remember going to a cookout with a date when I was young and she commented that I wasn't wearing shorts like the other men. I quit wearing shorts when I stopped playing so much golf.

I've heard guys out on the golf course say that they think pro golfers should be allowed to wear shorts, my reply was that shorts don't look professional.

RichardJohnson said...

I live where the daily high is above 90 degrees for more than three months a year. I use a very simple rule of thumb to choose between shorts versus pants. If I feel hot in pants, I wear shorts- unless the occasion warrants otherwise. Similarly, if I feel cold in shorts, I wear pants- unless the occasion warrants otherwise.

Here are some "warrants otherwise" examples. I wore a suit when I represented my HOA in court, on a day when the temperature was 105 degrees. Definitely hot outside in pants in that temperature. For the other side of the spectrum: I wore shorts in my younger days when I played soccer in December in the NE when the temperature was in the 30s. On my upper body I wore more than one layer.

And if there is anyone who objects to my wearing shorts,my reply is: Andate al carajo. [A polite if not entirely accurate translation: go jump in a lake.]

mccullough said...

Hillary in culottes

Paddy O said...

anti-shorts sentiments is a clear case of regionalism.

Non-contextual colonialistic assumptions, telling people in one region what they should or should not do to fit into one's own preferred location.

"but that is not the nature of the problem we are seeing now."

It was 95 at my place yesterday. Supposed to be 85 today. Northern US or European mentalities does not speak for the majority of humanity.

Paddy O said...

Don't be a regionist. Wear shorts.

MayBee said...

It's interesting that change in women's clothing - from corsets and long dresses to short dresses and no undergarments- is considered freeing and liberating. But changes in mens' clothing -from more restrictive pants to shorts - is considered rude.

Phil 314 said...

So professor, how do you feel about breechcloths?

Skeptical Voter said...

Well I'll agree with Ms. Lebowitz's assessment of Hillary's style--or lack thereof. She looks like a schlub. But then so does Harry Reid,or Queen Mooch when she's not "fixed up".

Indeed "fixed up" is term from my wife's college days back in the 60's. Her sorority sisters were either "fixed up", i.e. looking their best, a state which they all could achieve after sufficient effort---or "not fixed up."

Hillary's natural state is "not fixed up". Indeed the prospect of Hillary in shorts, culottes etc. is one that does not bear considering. Having seen the picture of Queen Mooch exiting Air Force One in a pair of shorts and a baggy T shirt, I've suffered enough in this life for presidential lady's sartorial sins.

May I suggest something in the burka line?

dreams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dreams said...

I've noticed that you see a lot of couples with the man wearing shorts and the woman wearing long pants, it seems to me that it should be the other way.

William said...

Men dress to express status or feel comfortable. Mistakes are made but generally those mistakes are less egregious than those of women who dress to express fashion or sex appeal. A thousand men in shorts is less offensive than one overweight woman with a bare midriff and BELLY BUTTON BLING to call attention to her daring fashion choice......,Nothing that is comfortable is alien to me.

m stone said...

Momma told me there is no excuse for bad taste.

Not bad knees.

MAJMike said...

You didn't live in south Texas where the temperature reaches 100+ for extended periods of time.

Patrick Henry was right! said...

Sexist to the core.

Patrick Henry was right! said...

Isn't this the sophomore who was killed in that kiln explosion?

Al from Chgo said...

"Women wear pants, men wear Trousers"

Staff Sergeant Davis, MCRD San Diego, 1961

Wilbur said...

She looks like Iron Eyes Cody.

Bless her heart.

skybill said...

Hi Ann,
If it's too cold for jap flaps and cut offs', then it's too cold and I wear long jeans. My cut offs' are just above knee length, that's short enough. And ever since my Navy/Viet Nam daze, "GO COMMANDO!!" If you were ever there, you'd know why! 'Ain't into "Fashion Statements," just tryin' to stay "Cool" when the "OAT" (Outside Air Temp) and Humidity soar!! You might consider that you are at the extreme opposite end of the Mississippi River from me, the temp. has already crossed the 80*F mark here and it's only MARCH!! Get out your Rand McNally and follow the I-55 all the way to the bottom in Louisiana!! Bring your Fishin' pole and your "Cut Off's!!!" You'll ditch yer' long pants...10 seconds flat!!
Got Gunz??,
III%,
skybill-out

Paul said...

Holy shit I just saw a picture of Fran Lebowitz and that is one fugly female. I'd rather have a hand grenade coming towards me than that hell hag ogre's face.

lemondog said...

Most people just aren't good looking enough to wear what they have on.

Well that lets me off the hook.

I think men should revive fashions from the '60's.

dbp said...

"So if you're naturally beautiful, wear what you want, but that's .01% of people."

I think she is off by 3 orders of magnitude, if not more. I would say 10% attractive is normal, higher if you are on a college campus or beach.

Unattractive people don't really bother me, they are basically invisible--I see them enough to not run into them or if we need to interact in some way.

I think Fran Lebowitz is not seeing things as an economist would: Attractive people are providing a public good, when they are in public. The rest of us need to go about our business and are under no obligation to provide the public good of hiding ourselves from the aesthetically demanding.

Paul said...

She looks like Muammar Gaddafi.

readering said...

I would say the biggest change of my lifetime is body art.

I remember wearing shorts as an adult in the eighties. And shorts were shorter then.

campy said...

"I would say 10% attractive is normal, higher if you are on a college campus or beach."

What planet do you live on where unattractive people avoid the beach?

Unknown said...


My father, who was always the sharpest dressed kid in school, never wore jeans (or sneakers), let alone shorts.

Andrew said...

Fran Lebowitz is the NYC Jewish PJ O'rourke. She's brilliant and wears tailored "men's" clothing which suit her.
She looks good in them.

Who wouldn't love to spend an evening with her?

Unknown said...

Althouse said: " It's just rude to wear shorts when you're going to be sitting next to someone, for example, on a plane. "

Now that's a sentiment I can get with. While I can accept exceptions to the 'no shorts for men' argument, the above is not one of them.

Unknown said...

Players on the PGA tour are banned from wearing shorts.

Andrew said...

Fran Lebowitz, "I used to buy all my shirts at Brooks [Brothers], but that was completely ruined about 20 years ago. They discontinued the shirt I liked. If I had only known this—I mean, if you're going to discontinue an item that thousands and thousands of people buy, announce it. Say, 'We will no longer be making our excellent Brooks Brothers cotton shirts that we made for 5,000 years. We're going to change them in some awful way. We're alerting you so you can buy a lifetime supply.' Shirts don't go bad, they're not peaches."

Mary Beth said...

Clothes don't really fit you unless they're made for you. Especially when you wear men's clothes, like I do. American women think that clothes fit them if they can fit into them. But that's not at all what fit means.

Be beautiful or wear custom tailored clothing or stay home.

I care less that someone next to me on a plane is wearing shorts than I do if they're too large for the seat and feel entitled to have part of mine.

n.n said...

In a society, fashion or aesthetic standards is analogous to religion or moral standards. Fashion supplants religion in liberal (i.e. selective) societies, and perhaps progressive (i.e. monotonic) societies too, depending on their conception of "progress".

RichardJohnson said...

It's just rude to wear shorts when you're going to be sitting next to someone, for example, on a plane.
I don't consider that rude,but the temperature in planes is so cold that I wouldn't feel comfortable in shorts. So, I never wear shorts on planes. Rude to wear shorts when sitting next to someone- that to me is absurd.

For a cross-cultural comparison of shorts versus pants, I will offer my experiences in Latin America. When I was in high school, I attended a Spanish language summer school in Mexico. Students lodged with Mexican families. As the school was in a city at 5,000 feet, the summer temperatures were not uncomfortable wearing pants. Nonetheless, we American students liked to wear shorts at home. We quickly ascertained that Mexicans didn’t approve of males wearing shorts. [At the time, I doubt Mesicans approved of females wearing shorts or pants, either.] When we were wearing shorts in the house’s indoor patio, with the door open to the street outside, we heard taunts of “que piernas” [“what legs”] from street-side neighbors looking inside.

After that experience, in Latin America I always wore pants outside, even when the temperature was in the 90s- or even to the hundreds. Seersucker or linen pants are fairly0 or somewhat- comfortable in that temperature. I made a number of strenuous 10+ mile day hikes in Central America, with many hills to hike up and down, at a low enough altitude where my pants were dripping with sweat. I subsequently decided to wear shorts on such hikes. I didn’t encounter any negative feedback, and my hikes were more comfortable without my pants being drenched in sweat.

Eric the Fruit Bat said...

Commenters here say she's ugly.

Maybe she is and maybe she isn't.

But she's definitely a troll.

Moose said...

I continue wear shorts just because its something she hates. And I have good legs...

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"Men dress to express status or feel comfortable. Mistakes are made but generally those mistakes are less egregious than those of women who dress to express fashion or sex appeal. A thousand men in shorts is less offensive than one overweight woman with a bare midriff and BELLY BUTTON BLING to call attention to her daring fashion choice......,Nothing that is comfortable is alien to me."

This in spades. I'm not fat-hatin' but the utter failure of so many chubby tattooed women to understand what is dignified, much less attractive, is astounding. As to shorts, in casual warm weather situations that's what I wear. My wife, who always dresses with dignity, says I look cute in shorts.

wildswan said...

Men wore Madras shorts in the Fifties to the beach or on vacation in the country. But not to work or even out in public in the city unless showing off that they were just back from vacation. I guess FL is taking about basketball shorts and such everywhere in northern cities like New York every day, everywhere and how they don't flatter the fatter.

But high school kids are wearing pajamas which have long pants to restaurants and Saturday meetings of other high school kids and that isn't any better. And pants that fall down - you still see them. And very expensive jeans look insane to me. And paying to have clothes pre-damaged when you could do it yourself though of course then it looks homemade instead of having a homemade look. Clothes are a little crazy these days and match the politics perfectly. There too a lot is hanging out which is unattractive though it's not acceptable to say so.

Lyle said...

I live in the hot, humid South and I will continue to wear shorts. I will not let the culture of a different people and place, determine what I wear.

Thank you.

CatherineM said...

Andrew - look for her conversations with Martin Scorsese. So entertaining.

I don't mind men in shorts if it's hot and your doing errands. Or if it's a BBQ and they are Bermuda. I think neat and clean and age appropriate is more important. I was in my late 20s and went to a bbq and the host, about 40 with kids was wearing a tie dye, filthy sneakers and ratty shorts. Pathetic. I wanted to say look at all of the other MEN here, mostly in shorts, but tailored neat with a collared shirt. I was embarrassed for his wife.

Now Flip Flops are another story. Yuck. Get a pedi at least.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

Fran Lebowitz? I thought she died in a kiln explosion, right before her date with Eric "Otter" Straton.

Rick Caird said...

I just get kick out of how much Althouse hates shorts. Does that mean Meade doesn't own any (anymore)?

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dbp said...

I would not say the ugly awoid the beach! The attractive seem drawn to it though. Good place to show off their hard work.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

For a pro-choice or selective society, people are inordinately judgmental. I would say it's paradox, but pro-choice is characterized by erratic orientation and behavior. It does not lend itself to normalize a stable and functional environment. I wonder if that's why Puff the Hallucinating Dragon has enjoyed a popular revival.

steve said...

I just love this excuse that it's okay to wear shorts if you live in a hot climate. Um, it was just as hot 50 years ago, when men wore PANTS. Your comfort is not society's highest priority, got it? If you're at the beach, or doing something athletic (basketball, soccer, tennis) or mowing your lawn, fine, but not when you're sitting next to me in class or at a Yankees game. Grow up.

Levi Starks said...

For me, wearing shorts is a free speech issue. I was born naked, and I refuse to allow an obviously matriarcial society to define what is or isn't an appropriate level of leg covering.
My need to have my legs bathed in life giving sunlight is more important than your need not to be offended. Avert your eyes if you must.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

Sitting on a plane next to someone chewing gum is nine million times more torturous (and therefore rude to inflict on another) than someone wearing shorts. We endure sights when in public that we might dislike and we are all skilled in ignoring them. Why would someone's shorts be more rude to subject a neighbor to than tattoos (I can't stand the things), facial piercings, ugly shirts or those godawful ear gauges?

Anonymous said...

Actually my comfort *is* my highest priority. I am retired and work from home, so I don't have to deal with customers or business people except over the Internet. In Palm Springs it will be around 100 today. And I've gotten used to lightness, dumping the heavy clothes, the wallet, the watch, and all the other things that drag on the flesh. This "wear church clothes even if it's hot" attitude doesn't work outside the North.

And people stop me to compliment my legs. So there.

campy said...

"Your comfort is not society's highest priority, got it?"

Your comfort is not my priority at all, got it?

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

My fashion advice, particularly to men wearing shorts: Ask yourself, 'Could I make a living modeling these shorts?' If the answer is no, then change your clothes.

This is why men are more successful than women. They don't excoriate themselves for things in which they're less-than-perfect.

And by this logic, a woman with Fran Lebowitz's face shouldn't leave her residence without a mask.

Or a burka.

Same goes for her not nearly as unattractive menopausal lady friends going outside in things without sleeves.

Life happens. Get over it, you neurotic mess of impulses.

jimbino said...

I, for one, have no interest whatsoever in living with or associating with women who have no interest or ability in working with tools.

Working with tools, whether power washer, chain-saw, lawnmower, etc., requires that you either wear short or sweat like hell in Texas.

Fine, I agree, I'd rather have a life than associate with women who don't like shorts on a man.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

It's one thing to give people a break when it's in the 90s or even the 80s, but that is not the nature of the problem we are seeing now. And men are wearing shorts when they are going to be indoors, in climate control. It's just rude to wear shorts when you're going to be sitting next to someone, for example, on a plane.

You've always had this issue. What's your problem… are you a lesbian? People on planes expose you to far worse with the damage they can do just between their hands and their bare faces. Is it a skirt privileging thing? Kids organize pants-free subway rides nowadays. Oh, the horror! Ask yourself how you not only came to be such a prude but why you allow that goofy impulse to be extended in the strangest of places.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I just get kick out of how much Althouse hates shorts. Does that mean Meade doesn't own any (anymore)?

Maybe she prefers to emasculate but for compassion's sake stays away from pronouncements involving the third leg.

God forbid an amateur artist saw a male nude. She must be a real hoot at museum exhibits.

Julie C said...

We make it a point to dress up when we're taking a plane ride or checking into a nice hotel. I've found you will get better service and all around have a better experience. Look like a grownup!

Even my two sons are following suit. There's nothing worse than seeing some teenager wearing pajama pants, coming down the plane aisle, looking like he just crawled out of bed. Blecch!

Of course, when we all got off the plane in Cancun and it was a million degrees outside with 1000% humidity we couldn't wait to get to the hotel to change!

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Fran Lebowitz is the NYC Jewish PJ O'rourke. She's brilliant and wears tailored "men's" clothing which suit her.
She looks good in them.

Who wouldn't love to spend an evening with her?


Somebody less uncomfortable with their self-respect.

Julie C said...

Also, wearing shorts in public spaces means your legs stick to restaurant seats, for example. And you are exposing your legs to god knows what is on various seats (subway, theater).

In a hot climate, for other than outside work or sports, why not a nice pair of cool linen trousers. They make linen now that doesn't wrinkle as much as it used to.

Forbes said...

Fran Liebowitz is 65 years old (and colors her hair)and has lived in NYC all her life. Are there any other changes in fashion since her childhood she notices? Men don't wear hats, other than ball caps, men don't predominately wear suits, men barely wear ties even when wearing a sport coat or suit, leather shoes worn consist of athletic shoes, and on and on it goes... Casual, sloppy, without a care in the world is today's fashion. And women who dress with no modesty or shame is a bit of a joke compared to men wearing shorts.

Paddy O said...

"Um, it was just as hot 50 years ago, when men wore PANTS."

They were wrong and regionists, thinking that cold climates determine fashion style.

That's why missionaries from the Northeast would go to Africa or Hawaii or places like that and wore wool coats and hats, making their native converts do the same.

Just about fifty years ago people with darker skin couldn't drink out of the same drinking fountain as people with lighter skin. So, we're becoming more self-aware and contextually intelligent. Except for those dirty regionists.

This discussion reminds me of Tertullian's On the Pallium: "Men of Carthage, ever princes of Africa, ennobled by ancient memories, blest with modern felicities, I rejoice that times are so prosperous with you that you have leisure to spend and pleasure to find in criticising dress."

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Your comfort is not society's highest priority, got it?"

Okay, but neither is yours, so get used to others wearing short shorts all over. Church weddings, funerals, court dates, they all will be infiltrated be me and my short loving homies.

You are impotent to stop it; submit.

fivewheels said...

Julie, you're kind of right, but one of the other major fashion changes of the last 25 years or so is that "short" pants are about three times as long, and sometimes only about 8 inches shorter than trousers. That should probably factor in as well.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Vitamin D deficiency sufferers have got one helluva hot tort against any person, publication, or platform even hinting at covering up one inch than is more than absolutely necesary.

Your high-class-status demands are preventing persons from achieving liberty and happiness.

tim in vermont said...

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - Ghandi

If Ghandi was right, shorts are doomed.

jr565 said...

IF women can wear slacks guys can wear shorts.
Deal with it ladies.
(Not that I wear shorts myself)

jr565 said...

If sluts can't be slut shamed then shorts wearers shouldn't be shorts shamed.
Deal with it ladies.

jr565 said...

Forbes wrote:
Fran Liebowitz is 65 years old (and colors her hair)and has lived in NYC all her life. Are there any other changes in fashion since her childhood she notices? Men don't wear hats, other than ball caps, men don't predominately wear suits, men barely wear ties even when wearing a sport coat or suit, leather shoes worn consist of athletic shoes, and on and on it goes... Casual, sloppy, without a care in the world is today's fashion. And women who dress with no modesty or shame is a bit of a joke compared to men wearing shorts.

many people have issues with women not wearing dresses. and wearing pants. I doubt Fran had much to say about women who bucked the trend.

Bad Lieutenant said...

+1 for Suck my cock, Ann and Fran, then I might be incented to give a fuck what you think about anything, let alone my personal style.

jr565 said...

This woman shouldn't really be telling people how to dress.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fran+leibowitz&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=6FE56066F844E4A8CC791981FEE16A469AEE8A0C&selectedIndex=117

Is there anything remotely feminine about how she dresses? She looks Gene Simmons, always dressed in a dark suit.

jr565 said...

Better shorts than this:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fashion%20show%20burlap%20sack%20showing%20genitals&qs=n&form=QBIRMH&pq=fashion%20show%20burlap%20sack%20showing%20genitals&sc=0-0&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&id=3671D02CECF1B0ACB5A9C3040BB4655DA31687CB&selectedIndex=5

Danno said...

In reading the interview with Fran Lebowitz, one word quickly comes to mind- dour.

dbp said...

This is what men should wear.

Ctmom4 said...

I am not sure a woman who dresses like that should be criticizing other's wardrobe choices.

What is the particular objection to shorts on a plane? That their skin might touch yours? Suppose they are khaki shorts,knee length, as they should be?

Titus said...

I don't like men in shorts either. My hubby and I never wear them in public.

Fat men with hairless legs are the worse.

tits.

Henry said...

My son is doing a book report on Charles Atlas. Charles Atlas turns out to have been an utterly charming guy. I offer you two anecdotes. The first is about shorts. The second is about natural beauty.

Shorts: "To protest an office dress code, he encouraged all the women on his staff to wear shorts to work in the summer. Then he appointed his private secretary president of the Long Live Shorts Club."

Natural beauty: "In his view, marriage itself was subject to the vagaries of a robust sense of well-being. 'The lack of glorious, vigorous health,' he noted, 'would prove to be, if the divorce records were analyzed, the most common reason why so many marriages "crack up."'"

Both anecdotes from Charles Atlas: Muscle Man in Smithsonian Magazine.

In regards to the first anecdote, the shorts are not necessarily pertinent to Althouse because the shorts were on women, though I think the second anecdote offers Mr. Atlas's general view on the general case. You must click through to see the picture.

traditionalguy said...

Style ignorant NCAA. Showcases 10 men in shorts at one time...or is that longs in shorts.

Kaminsky would make a perfect Hawk pick in the coming NBA draft. And he is a Big who never misses a foul shot.

Unknown said...

[i] I just get kick out of how much Althouse hates shorts. Does that mean Meade doesn't own any (anymore)? [/i]

I guess we know who wears the shorts at Meadehouse.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Codpiece Flyers will be my next kickstarter campaign, unless any of you want in on the action now at a greater return and with the full legal talent of interested observers here at your disposal, seemingly.

We will make codpieces designed so you can fly without old biddies berating your choice of fashion. Their fear will keep them silent, as is our want.

steve said...

Okay, but neither is yours, so get used to others wearing short shorts all over. Church weddings, funerals, court dates, they all will be infiltrated be me and my short loving homies.

You know what gives me comfort? Clipping my toenails, digging wax out of my ear, picking my nose, burping, farting, scratching my balls, eating with my hands, and talking loudly on my cell phone. Oh, you say there's a time and place for these things? Couldn't agree more.

You wanna get nuts? Let's get nuts.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Dennis Praeger likes to claim having a bad attitude is akin to having bad breath (or wearing shorts as you like).

And I'm already nuts Sir. This recognition is the most consistent ethos my philosophy has produced.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Take a shit right on the street" - Steel Panther

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/steelpanther/ifiwastheking.html

Anonymous said...

steve said...
I just love this excuse that it's okay to wear shorts if you live in a hot climate. Um, it was just as hot 50 years ago, when men wore PANTS. Your comfort is not society's highest priority, got it? If you're at the beach, or doing something athletic (basketball, soccer, tennis) or mowing your lawn, fine, but not when you're sitting next to me in class or at a Yankees game. Grow up.

*****

Steve, can you explain to us why you have conflated "society's highest priority" with "sitting next to YOU"?

Anonymous said...

I would think keeping your airplane seat fully downright in the tumescent position would help avoid the vapors-inducing horror of gazing on your seatmate's exposed legtal hairiness.

I'm Full of Soup said...

This just in:

Drunken bash scheduled in Madison next Saturday! Good time guaranteed for all - win or lose! Be there or be square!

Alex said...

There is something hilarious about men showing off their spindly knobby legs in shorts.

Now men like me who have muscular legs have no such issues. The problem is it's never hot enough to wear shorts where I live.

HT said...

it's just another way of being in pajamas

----

I don't know about Madison, but in DC, grown men WEAR PAJAMAS outside in my neighborhood. It's much less of a city these days than a transient college town, no offense. They bring the shabby sort of short-term thinking about civic life along with them. It's horrible.

Perhaps the absolute MOST offensive things about seeing men in shorts is seeing them in shorts outside the summer months.

Alex said...

You wanna get nuts? Let's get nuts.

Michael Keaton, Batman.

Alex said...

I do agree, that shorts should be on little boys, not men. Unless you're playing tennis and then it should be down almost to just above the knee.

You know, ghetto style.

Alex said...

R&B said..
Same goes for her not nearly as unattractive menopausal lady friends going outside in things without sleeves.

Holy crap dude! Did you just call out all those middle aged women on their batwings?

HT said...

"And women who dress with no modesty or shame is a bit of a joke compared to men wearing shorts."

I'm imagining you are assuming women are wearing tight tops and revealing dresses. And in this scenario (which I admit I don't know fully), the women are at least well-dressed. Let's say they dress sexily like many women in Latin America. Well those Latin American women's male counterparts while they dress more conservatively, are still well-dressed. Here, the women are revealingly dressed, but well-dressed. But the men are still slobs.

Alex said...

Here, the women are revealingly dressed, but well-dressed. But the men are still slobs.

Men are slobs all the world around. I especially laugh at those fat men with comb-overs who think they are god's gift to women. You know real players/PUAs.

mishu said...

I'm still wearing shorts. Not everyone else is hung up about it as Ann and Steve.

Laslo Spatula said...

I do not wear shorts in public.

On the weekends of warm weather I wear corduroy pants. Chicks in skintight yoga pants LOVE to sit on the lap of a man wearing corduroy pants.

I think it is the ribbing: it makes for a naught wiggle.


I am Laslo.

Laslo Spatula said...

When a Man such as myself wears corduroy pants the women on his lap often call it 'lap-surfing'.

It requires a gentle move of the hips.

On both parts.



I am Laslo.

Bob R said...

I have to figure that the guys pleading comfort have never worn linen or seersucker - or even khakis or jeans that have been worn to the texture of pajamas. If I am standing up - hiking, doing physical labor of some kind - shorts are great. But as soon as I sit on anything, pants are far more comfortable. Less sticking to plastic or burning myself on leather.

Laslo Spatula said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

Ask yourself, 'Could I make a living modeling these shorts?' If the answer is no, then change your clothes.

I think she doesn't understand the point of clothes for men.

rcocean said...

I wear shorts constantly in warm weather to stay cool - and to flaunt my manly legs.

If women can wear pants for comfort, men can wear shorts. I do agree they look silly on most men.

Bob R said...

While I am anti-shorts, the pajamas comparison does not make sense - or at least is inconsistent. Linen or seersucker pants - very traditional hot-climate men's pants - are basically pajama bottoms.

Laslo Spatula said...

The women known as chicks love corduroy because it provides the subterfuge of passive excitement. '

Chicks like to pretend the excitement is passive until they have an orgasm.

Thank you, corduroy pants.

I am Laslo.

Laslo Spatula said...

A woman in yoga pants sitting on the lap of a man wearing corduroy pants has already committed to emitting little squealy sounds.

The women who deny this have never worn yoga pants and sat on a lap of male corduroy.

The sounds remind me of happy dolphins.


I am Laslo.

HT said...

fivewheels said...

For the record, I've had strangers compliment my legs when I've been in shorts (does it count if this is during exercise?) but never when in slacks.


Stop wearing pleats.

J. Farmer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J. Farmer said...

I have not owned or worn a pair of shorts (with the exception of swim trunks) for almost 15 years now. My general rule of thumb for judging them on other men is very simple: shape and hair. Men with nicely shaped legs that are either naturally free of hair or are clean shaven look quite lovely in shorts in my opinion.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Sure sure I PERFECTED.

That doesn't apply to you though.

Paddy O said...

Fifty years ago women wore panty hose. Now, hardly any of them do! Fashion faux pas. And pants. Back when men were men and women were women, women wore slacks for slacking off! Dresses for church, for work, for... everything respectable!

Also hats. Bare heads everywhere, men and women. It's scandalous all those heads exposed for the world to see!

Meanwhile, history is full of trouserless men. The Romans, the Greeks, so and so forth, bare-legged in togas. And they were brilliant.

Paul Ciotti said...

Althouse: " It's just rude to wear shorts when you're going to be sitting next to someone, for example, on a plane. "

Is it rude for young women to wear shorts on a plane too?

If it's rude for a man to do it, what is the nature of the rudeness? That male legs are ugly? That his penis may protrude?

chickelit said...

If it's rude for a man to do it, what is the nature of the rudeness? That male legs are ugly? That his penis may protrude?

I think it's a hairy leg thing. The hairs might shed. Today's modern feminist wants her man shaven and more lady-like.

RichardJohnson said...

jr565:
This woman shouldn't really be telling people how to dress.

[links to pictures of Fran Lebowitz]
Excellent point. Another commenter wrote that DOUR best describes her interview. DOUR also describes her dress.Black, black, and more black: can't get much more dour than that. I am reminded of the Noo Yawk hipster habit of dressing in black: t-shirts and jeans. Black suits are not a great improvement over Noo Yawk hipster t-shirts and pants in black. DOUR Frannie. Noo Yawk Hipster, Mafia or Wall Street- where black has greater provenance- ain't my style, lady.

Fastidious Frannie
My fashion advice, particularly to men wearing shorts: Ask yourself, 'Could I make a living modeling these shorts?' If the answer is no, then change your clothes.

Very few people could make a living modeling anything. Is Fastidious Frannie suggesting that what most of us should be walking around without any clothing at all, given that most of us couldn't make a living modeling any clothing?

Sorry, I am not taking any fashion advice from a dour Noo Yawkah whose wardrobe apparently consists of 90% black. I have hardly any black in my wardrobe. Aand I ain't about to purchase any to please Fastidious Frannie.

In closing: if shorts are good enough for a Purple People Eater, they're good enough for me.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Rather than a dithering fool, I Niwot CO.

chickelit said...

Fight The Dour!

Fight the Dours that be!

chickelit said...

Lebowitz wrote: Most people just aren't good looking enough to wear what they have on.

That bit of honesty explains her own drab attire, but not the Maoist garb of an attractive woman like Rachel Maddow. Something else must be in play.

chickelit said...

More Lebowitz: They should get some slacks and a nice overcoat.

Slacks is pussified word for trousers. Grown men, even back in the '50's, didn't wear what she calls "slacks."

Mark Caplan said...

Upper-class men have worn knee breeches (culottes in France) since the 1600s. The scruffy rabble went about sans-culottes.

chickelit said...

Even more Lebowitz: All these clothes that you see people wearing, the yoga clothes—even men wear them!—it's just another way of being in pajamas.

So why did a major American political party chose a pajama-clad, latte-sipping "male" as a spokeshole for ObamaCare?

Craig Landon said...

What a fun interview to read. I'd have a beer with her.

I grew up in Tucson, AZ in the 50s. Don't think I owned any shorts 'til we moved to L.A. Levis all the time, except church. Even then in L.A. they were rare. Fast forward to Florida, and they're ubiquitous. I've never felt comfortable (socially) in shorts. Althouse has assisted my tendency to forego them.

The comfort vs. temperature excuse is a weak one with today's fabrics.

chickelit said...

Craig Landon said...
What a fun interview to read. I'd have a beer with her.

Not me. I'd be afraid of burping. It'd have to be gin martinis.

J. Farmer said...

@Chickelit:

"So why did a major American political party chose a pajama-clad, latte-sipping 'male' as a spokeshole for ObamaCare?"

I am pretty sure it was hot chocolate, and given the time of the year, I think it was supposed to be a whole Christmas morning kind of thing. I am also pretty sure that being photographed for an advertisement is not exactly a spokesman.

chickelit said...

I am also pretty sure that being photographed for an advertisement is not exactly a spokesman.

Come again? That just doesn't make sense nor ring true.

Think about it.

skybill said...

Hi Ann,
Actually it all (wearing shorts, long pants, cut off's, etc) became irrelevant the first time we all went down to "Black's Beach" in Sandyeggo. "Reset."
Got Gunz??,
III%,
skybill-out

Mountain Maven said...

HRC's sense of style, or anything else about her appearance is the least of her worries right now.

J. Farmer said...

"Come again? That just doesn't make sense nor ring true.

Think about it."

Uhh...the crucial piece of information is contained right there in the word. A spokesperson, as I understand the word, is someone who speaks on behalf of someone or something. It does not really make sense to consider the subject of a print advertisement to be a spokesman for either the advertiser or the product advertised. The guy may very well be an ardent Obama and Obamacare supporter and may have participated in the add gleefully and enthusiastically. But that still does not make him a "spokesman" for Obamacare.

And again, the cocoa and PJs thing were part of a whole Christmas morning vibe.

J. Farmer said...

@Mountain Maven:

"HRC's sense of style, or anything else about her appearance is the least of her worries right now."

I agree, and it would make me quite happy if something (anything!) derailed the Clinton inevitability train. My hopes for a Jim Webb insurgency campaign have dwindled.

That said, let's talk about her style for a second. I sometimes suspect Hillary Clinton was a product of that old-school style of feminism that associated concern with fashion and style with frivolity and that encouraged women to take a more subdued, utilitarian approach to their appearance in order to be taken more seriously in the "man's world."

Or I guess it could just be that she has a godawful since of aesthetics. Even in my single favorite photo of Hillary, where she is looking down at her phone wearing a great pair of sunglasses was apparently a result of medical necessity. And even in that gorgeous photo, I cannot help but be annoyed by all her atrocious, matchy-matchy turquoise jewelry.

Anonymous said...

I wear shorts because they are comfortable. Now, it is a bonus just knowing some clothing snobs are hyperventilating over the fact.

I have ridden in planes for hundreds of hours and someone sitting next to me in shorts has never been a problem. To me this is like getting all aquiver over someone wearing the color purple or shaving their head.

Rich Rostrom said...

"One day this summer I was riding through Letchworth when the bus stopped and two dreadful-looking old men got on to it. They were both about sixty, both very short, pink, and chubby, and both hatless. One of them was obscenely bald, the other had long grey hair bobbed in the Lloyd George style. They were dressed in pistachio-coloured shirts and khaki shorts into which their huge bottoms were crammed so tightly that you could study every dimple. Their appearance created a mild stir of horror on top of the bus. The man next to me, a commercial traveller I should say, glanced at me, at them, and back again at me, and murmured ‘Socialists’, as who should say, ‘Red Indians’."
-- George Orwell, The Road to Wigan Pier

chickelit said...

@J Farmer: You are at war with Madison Ave, as Robert Cook is at war with Wall St.

J. Farmer said...

@Chickelit:

No, I think you are at war with the English language.

Again, I know it seems like a herculean task for many who frequent the comments section here, but it is quite possible (and rather easy) to look out and analyze a piece of advertisement dispassionately without it saying anything about your underlying politics or personal beliefs.

Gary Rosen said...

"Fran Lebowitz is far too ugly to go out in public without a bag on her head. It's disgusting. You need more beauty to get away with walking around like that."

This. I would say that Fran Lebowitz stopped being relevant 30 years ago, except she was never relevant in the first place to any but a tiny number of fanboys/girls of whom AA is apparently one.

J. Farmer said...

"This. I would say that Fran Lebowitz stopped being relevant 30 years ago, except she was never relevant in the first place to any but a tiny number of fanboys/girls of whom AA is apparently one."

Haha. Gary, relax a bit. It was an interview with Elle magazine where someone asked her her opinion about fashion. She's obviously doing a curmudgeonly, it's-all-going-to-hell schtick. Remember when Andy Rooney would bore us to all to tears on 60 Minutes with the same routine? And who cares what she looks like? She's giving her opinion on clothes. My friends and I talk about what movies and music we love and hate all the time. None of us are professional filmmakers or musicians, and we would probably all be spectacular failures at either career. So what?

lonetown said...

This is really just old fashioned thinking, i.e. that you should try and look good when you go out in public.

Lebowitz just loves the old ways.

campy said...

"Fight The Dour!"

Speak Truth to Dour.

Anonymous said...

Don't empower the dour - wear shorts.

Mark said...

A little time on any famous whether college or high school will show you that Ann is fighting a losing battle today.

I would be fine with the shorts thing if they stopped women who shouldn't from wearing tights and yoga pants.

bleh said...

If you are a grown man and people are stopping you to compliment your legs, consider the possibility that they are messing with you or even trying to embarrass you.

I am not as anti-shorts as Althouse, but have some perspective.

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

I just don't get this shortsaphobia. What is wrong with shorts on men? Yeah, my gams aren't all that great but there are many women walking around showing theirs which are even worse looking.

Ann, you and I are of a certain age. From your pictures you are pretty attractive. But I doubt your legs are a big turnon to most people. (Just because of age, I am sure they look fine considering)

So do you wear shorts? Do you wear non-ankle length dresses ever?

Why should only men be allowed the pleasures of the cooling breezes on out legs.

Why can't men wear shorts or skirts? Men could even, if we use Cottenelle buttwipe "Go commando!" and get a free "commando kit"

Only Cottonelle® has CleanRipple® texture to get you clean, giving you all the confidence you need to Go Commando. Dare a friend to Go Commando and we’ll send you and your friend a personalized commando kit with a free sample.

https://www.cottonelle.com/go-commando

That would feel pretty nice on many days down here in the deep south (PR)

Per the site, since you are a friend (sort of) I am daring you to go commando!

Meade, you can report back to us here on the results.

John Henry

Bilwick said...

I think she may be on to something about looking youthful (although I hated shorts as a kid and never wore them unless forced to by my parents). I live in a city where their- and forty-something yuppie males are big on looking like they're still frat boys. I often wonder if their clothing is a way of saying, "Yes, Mon-Fri you might see me as Yuppie Scum, but in my off hours I still have that boyish innocence." That, or they just like to look like mindless trendoids.

zefal said...

Mrogyny! The sun is strong and exposing your skin to sun is good for you. I wear shorts all year long. Men have more muscle on average and therefore have more body heat to
dissipate. I know Fran from her appearances on Late Night with David Letterman in the 80s. I always looked forward to her appearances. She's not a pc liberal (facist) but a classic liberal so her opinions she expresses aren't run through some rigid ideological processing.

David Davenport said...

Fat men with hairless legs are the worse

Even worse than skinny men with extra hairy legs?

My prediction for men's wear: yoga pants on the street and then at work.

... Maybe topped off with a codpiece.

RichardJohnson said...

While walking the dog in my neighborhood this evening, all middle aged people of both sexes I saw were wearing knee length shorts. The temperature was in the 70s.

Danno said...

This just in from Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2015/03/23/are-mamil/?intcmp=features

It is about "middle-aged men in lycra", MAMIL, as in the tight shorts some folks wear while bicycling.

Andrew said...

The prof and I are the same age. We can remember dress codes at universities, coat and tie.

The all tennis clothing was white for a reason, it was the only color allowed.

Shorts still aren't allowed in pro golf. There was a time they weren't allowed on public courses either. Even today almost all country clubs don't allow shorts shorter than 1 inch above the knee.

I admit to wearing Bermudas to play golf and do yard work. But, growing up in the Deep South only children wore shorts with the exception of a lawyer in Greenville, Miss. He wore topical wt. wool Bermudas, knee socks, blazer, shirt and tie, and white bucks of course.

FYI, Fran's knowledge of men's clothing far exceeds 99.9% of men in America. The art of dressing well has been lost to the middle class. I blame 1967 when the libs went to war with each other, resulting in the "black pajamas" equivalent Chambray work shirts, bell bottoms and Frye boots or sandals.

;-)



Think said...

MRG said "So if you're naturally beautiful, wear what you want, but that's .01% of [old] people"

Agreed. My favorite quote from Steve Martin's excellent biography in which he is answering the question of whether his early flings were with beautiful women:

“Were they beautiful? We were all beautiful. We were in our twenties.”